1
point
Has anyone tried layering their garden with multiple types of soil?

General    zone 4

I've been at the working end of a shovel for most of my life and I've noticed that most virgin soil has multiple layers. Usually I find 4 to 12" of top soil with a layer of the dominant local soil underneath, some soils will have three or four different layers in just a couple feet of digging. My question is has anyone tried to simulate this in a garden bed? I'm planning a new raised bed garden and I'm thinking of starting with about 4 inches of gravel for water run-off then adding a 2" layer of Hydroton or vermiculite for drought resistance and topping it off with another 8" of loam and 4" of finished compost. I would really love some brutally honest critique before starting a new, experimental garden bed.


Posted by: J.D. Archer (31 points) J.D. Archer
Posted: May 14, 2013


Tanya in the Garden commented,
What's under the gravel? And where will the runoff go -- is it on a slope? Also, that's a lot of compost! The soil-building books I've been reading (Nauta, Solomon) recommend no more than a half-inch or a quarter-inch. I've planted tomatoes and filled the hole with 5 gallons of homemade compost, but I don't think I've ever added as much as 4 inches.
almost 11 years ago.

J.D. Archer commented,
I'm putting the beds on top of clay and rock soil that was depleted by erosion and bad farming. It's about 1/3 the way up an east facing hill inside a gentle valley. I'm inside a frost pocket so conserving warmth and drainage are important. The loam available locally is low quality and needs a lot of organic matter added, I imitating what I've found in the nearby bog which is very fertile and that has about 4" of moss and leaf litter as a top layer. Do Nauta or Solomon explain why they limit the amount of compost? I'd love to know!
almost 11 years ago.

Tanya in the Garden commented,
I mentioned Nauta's rec at https://www.plantvillage.com/posts/525
Solomon is opinionated. In his book The Intelligent Gardener, he spends a full chapter ranting against compost as an all-purpose, any-case solution. He had a garden for some years on severely depleted soil in Oregon, when he was a Rodale follower and added lots and lots of compost, and says his health suffered because he wasn't doing soil tests and paying attention to the mineral content of his soil. But now he's discovered Albrecht's work on ideal calcium-magnesium ratios in soil and recommends soil tests and mineralization. He gardens in Tasmania and uses relatively tiny amounts of compost. He also says at his age, making compost is too much work.

Here's an article about composting myths,
http://www.composterconnection.com/my...
which includes connections to Linda Chalker-Scott's useful articles on horticultural myths.

almost 11 years ago.



Answers

2
points
Of course the reason you find layers in a "virgin" soil profile has to do with the many cycles of growth and decomposition, degradation of bedrock by water and organic acids, deposition by wind and other forces, as well as little disturbance from above.

It takes Nature as long as 500 years to make an inch of topsoil. Amazing!

You may have better luck over the long haul by importing a few inches of topsoil to replace the soil lost by erosion, then tilling (or digging) in a modest amount of high-quality, balanced compost, and understanding that you can't make an ideal soil overnight. Regular use of organic mulches and different types of cover crops--some with deep roots to help break up the clay and any hardpan (rye, some clovers, daikon radish); others that contribute lots of organic matter (especially grains and grasses); still others that fix nitrogen (field peas, hairy vetch)--will gradually create more ideal conditions for your garden. Make sure to have your soil tested every two or three years to find out what's missing.

Here's a fact sheet describing some of the myths of soil organic matter and why too much compost can harm plants and the environment. http://bit.ly/13wE8ej


Posted by: Peg Boyles (4 points) Peg Boyles
Posted: May 18, 2013


J.D. Archer commented,
Thanks for the great information on compost application, I'll definitely tone down the amount of compost I use. Do lasagna gardeners need to take special steps to avoid over-fertilization and run-off? Maybe I should ask that as a separate question on PlantVillage.

almost 11 years ago.



2
points
As you say, it's an experimental bed, so it'd be interesting to try something different, especially if you have the space and resources to do a "control" bed.

My main concern with your layers would be drainage. I'd do a small test plot and try a couple representative plants that you want to grow. Have you found something like what you are proposing in nature? And are you planning to grow something similar to what's found growing on such multilayered soil?

Here's my experience using lots of compost.

I have 5-6 compost bins and I've added lots of compost, and composted horse manure, to my community-garden beds over the years. When I've gotten sunken plots, the easiest way to fill them has been with compost and free coffee grounds, lightly forked into the soil. But I used to think I couldn't grow large tomatoes in my garden because of my cool-summer climate and part-shade garden plots. I added lots of compost, following the dictum "feed the soil, not the plants"! One fall I piled a bed with about a foot of partly composted horse manure, which shrunk to 6"-8" in the spring, and planted each tomato plant in 5 gallons of homemade compost. l had good production, but the big tomatoes didn't get as big as their genetics dictated, and I didn't get a lot of them. And then 3-4 years ago I started using a handful of alfalfa pellets in the hole when I planted tomatoes. Ever since, I've gotten good yields of large tomatoes, even in years that other local gardeners described as bad tomato years. I still haven't done a soil test, but the local soils tend to have enough potassium and phosphorus, and need only nitrogen, as far as NPK goes. I don't know the Ca-Mg ratio, and that would be a reason to get a soil test.

In fact, as I've come to understand, it takes only a small amount of added compost each year to stimulate the soil life. So adding the compost did not necessarily affect my yields, but it seems the compost was not providing enough N (assuming, of course, that the role of alfalfa was contributing N, but it also offers the growth stimulant triacontanol http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/ejournals/J...).

On the bright side, other people at the community garden have complained about the flavor of their tomatoes or sugar snap peas. When i've had the same varieties, we've done a taste comparison and mine were sweeter and more flavorful. I've also had fewer pest problems. I know a lot of other gardeners there use stronger ferts, such as chicken manure and commercial blends, and perhaps some of their problems are from overfertilizing. Pests are attracted to fast new growth, N ferts promote fast new growth. Watering is also a factor. Compost and mulch reduce the amount of watering needed, and withholding water from tomatoes, for one, concentrates the flavor.

I mulch my gardens, and I water by hand, so I can adjust my watering to avoid runoff. Mulch is a huge help -- it absorbs lots of water. It doesn't rain here in the summer, but during the rainy season, well-mulched (or planted) beds don't erode and well-mulched paths don't get muddy or waterlogged. On a slope, you can create swales (for absorbing water without runoff).


Posted by: Tanya in the Garden (128 points) Tanya in the Garden
Posted: May 19, 2013


J.D. Archer commented,
Here the spring snow melt is the big problem. I'm not sure how many generations ago it was but the hill was divided up into rows with large rock walls. And they're directing all the water into the bog at the bottom, so when the trickles of snow melt reach me it's more of a seasonal river. It breaks my heart when I look at it now so each year I add another 16 x 16 garden bed and I like to do something different with each one I build. So this year I thought I'd try to imitate the bog at the bottom of the hill. Every spring after the snow melt has dried this bog explodes with growth, by July you need a scythe to walk the stream bank. It seems able to support a pretty large variety of plants, I know of cranberries, blackberry, raspberry, high bush blue berry, goldenroot, fiddleheads, wild onions and some sort of bitter ground leaf my grandmother swore is spinach but I think it was dandelion in disguise :P
almost 11 years ago.

Tanya in the Garden commented,
I wonder if the snow melt is carrying lots of minerals ("rock dust"). A bunch of books I've been reading about building garden soils have recommended adding various kinds of rock dust, which adds trace minerals. Maybe that's the top layer.

It's not hard to get brambleberries to fill in! I gave away a thornless blackberry last spring and have been pulling out new sprouts ever since. My formerly tame boysenberry is starting to act like it wants to be a thicket.

I have community garden plots, but I love self-seeders and I like to see what will happen from year to year if I weed selectively. For a few years I had a nice area of hummingbird sage, with columbines, perennial kale, nasturtiums, and other plants growing among it. Now I have an area with echinacea, which is pretty spectacular in the summer. It, too, has other plants interspersed: more columbines and perennial kale, and along the edges, California fuchsia, redventure celery, vietnamese cilantro, lovage, lemon balm, borage, and probably a few other plants. I'm planning another garden with a border of native shrubby perennials, which I hope won't overwhelm the vegetables.


almost 11 years ago.



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